Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?
Hey HN,
I feel like I've wasted the better part of my twenties trying to be a professional software engineer and founding two companies. Fortunately I have some money to show for it and I learned a lot, but at this point it seems I'm functionally unemployable / have skills that just don't make the cut anymore.
Building with AI is incredible, but when I get interviews I just flat out can't pass tech screens anymore. I've gotten lucky with a few "forward deployed" roles but for whatever reason, never get a callback after the final round.
I really enjoy software, but I need to actually figure something out that's a real career (earns more than $150k per annum). I'm sort of freaking out given that all this time and money I spent to become an engineer appears to be going to waste. It's been about four months and the prospects just aren't showing up like they used to.
Also, I have zero interest in 996 startup culture. How on earth it became impossible as an american to get a job in software where you make a decent salary and work 50hr weeks is sort of beyond my comprehension as someone in Gen Z.
Curious for advice or if anyone else has made the leap outside of tech. I fear for my mental health and stability if I don't figure something out soon. I flat out just don't know where I want to go next, even applying to sales roles has fallen flat.
I have good contacts for law school, but the notion of burning $200k on the chance that law is still a viable career with AI seems like an even worse decision than logic I applied in my 20s.
Cheers.
If you want to stay in the bay area and leverage your experience, perhaps you want to become a technical co-founder for someone?
Otherwise it might make sense to move out of the bay area to where there are lower costs of living and then lower your salary expectations to match.
Bear in mind that being a good corporate drone or middle manager requires different soft skills and attitude than being the CEO of your own company. You have to march to someone else's drum which can be hard.
You need to prove to yourself and others that you can be a regular developer now, you're in a position where you might need to sacrifice salary, job description and/or working conditions to get a foot back on the ladder.
Beyond salary, the culture of working hours in the bay area might be a bad fit for you. If you're looking for a boring (in a good way) salaryman programmer role you might need to see where those sort of companies are centred.
Note, I live and work outside the US so I can't give specific US advice.
Hello from Fargo, ND! I make peanuts but it's the least stressful job I've ever had.
I've considered this. But I really just want a real salary. If I could find this and make $120k in the bay (barely survivable) I'd consider it - but I would really prefer to have a normal job with a dependable salary.
I was previously in the bay, but I'm back in Austin for a while - which fortunately is dirt cheap.
I’m sorry but this is wild, but you want:
- A salary that is ~15% higher than the median Bay Area household, which consists of ~2.6 people. And as an individual you’re calling it “barely survivable”.
or a
- A salary that is 40% higher than the median household in Austin TX, which consists of 2.7 people. The median individual makes about $52,223 in Austin.
Am I reading this right? On top of this you seem to have a negative and entitled attitude, based on your other responses.
I'm an IC6 SRE and can't afford to live in the SF Bay Area where I grew up. The area around the 100th meridian west is much cheaper. The Bay Area has become a bastion of rich assholes from around the world gentrifying the cost of living and home prices, and old people with Prop 13 who never move while everyone else younger than them languishes paying much more property taxes. Boomers, on average, ruined the world with their selfishness and failed to pay it forward as the Greatest generation did for them.
You have set a high goal of $150k salary without a clear way to achieve it, or a clear passion, if I'm reading correctly.
What is your depth of knowledge in? You say software?
Law would be an risk idea if you don't love it with all your heart, even people who love law hate it by the end of law school.
$150k is not a crazy number. That’s not even inside the senior engineer salary band.
[flagged]
When the average US salary is something like 45k, $150k is a high salary especially when you have no plan or clear path to the goal
Based on your comments in this thread, I'd suggest that soft skills could use a refresher and might be the difference between getting something and getting passed over again next time - good luck, it isn't easy
To be fair to the OP, the median (so lower than average) salary for a single person with a bachelor's degree (in USA) is ~$80,000, give or take a few bucks.
The average is likely higher, and then higher again for higher COL areas.
So it's not unreasonable for OP to expect to start at this level, and work their way up to $150k over the next 5-7 years.
People on HN saying $150k is a "high bar" is frankly insulting. Anyone in the bay who's not a founder or working for a meaningless company easily clears $200k.
I've started two companies, exited one and technically have the skills of a "senior engineer". I've managed teams of engineers and have architected remote factory production systems for one of my companies along with a dozen or so relatively complex web apps in the fintech space.
> Anyone in the bay who's not a founder or working for a meaningless company easily clears $200k.
Maybe your attitude is why you can't find a job?
Nothing in your post indicates you're "in the bay", and in the other 99% of the country $150k is a decent salary.
I recently paid a guy about $10k to roof my house. $3500 materials, ~$6500 labor. Maybe 32 hours labor tops, it is a hella small house. Might be worth looking into. He was cheaper than pretty much anyone else.
Man, it seems like yesterday we were telling coal miners to "learn to code". Now software devs are being told to become tradesmen.
The tradesmen in higher COL areas seem to have no problem charging dev hourly rates ($150-200/hr) and also upcharging ridiculous amounts on materials (one of them tried to charge me $75 for a $3 capacitor).
Maybe there is something to that after all.
Why can't other people recognize how great you are?
My resume is pretty scattered. I had good interest with a recruiter sending me FDE roles.
But most large orgs look at my resume and run since I have multiple two year stints and stints starting / running my own companies.
I'm also fully willing to admit that relative to "senior engineers" of today, maybe I just suck. In that case, idk how to move to what's next. I'm social, but not exactly normal. Also willing to see the humor in your comment that points to my potential conceit.
Are you only applying to senior roles? Idk the specifics of your background, but it sounds like you haven't been somewhere long enough to get promoted and have largely worked on your own projects.
To me that doesn't really say that you have senior engineer skills, i.e. designing scalable systems (both in compute and development-wise), leading multi-person projects, considering trade-offs, etc.
I built a bespoke IOT stack that currently runs over 10k devices and a full production line interface / deployment for a factory we used in china. I'm not going to define what "senior engineer" is, but this was done largely solo with engineers I managed to maintain it.
Sounds impressive enough to probably get a senior role somewhere. Maybe you aren't selling yourself well in your resume?
hard to say - just trying to figure it out
Based on your responses, I think your soft skills / people skills are letting you down. I would recommend working diligently on how you interact and communicate so that you do not come across as arrogant, dismissive, or out of touch.
Too down to earth, OP wants to vent his frustrations.
Where do you lean as far as FE/BE/mobile? What tech stacks and/or programming languages can you hit the ground running with?
I jest, but I've been in situations similar to yours. I don't have any advice to give, but I wish you luck.
Thanks for your thoughts :)
This reply makes you sound like you’re up your own arse.
What? It's an utterly straight-forward summary of their work experience and a factual statement about salaries offered as a counter-example to the parent. There's is no (obvious) hubris in it.
Thank you - HN is quickly becoming a mirror of BlueSky lol
"It's so weird, everywhere I go and ask for advice, people tell me I'm the problem. Where else can I go ask that might tell me something different?"
Probably X and @grok
Why bluesky, not Reddit or X?
You’re coming across in this thread as, er, honestly pretty insufferable. This likely isn’t doing you any favours in interviews; you may want to work on that. _Particularly_ for senior roles; an asshole junior may be just about tolerable, but an asshole senior can be a real problem and most companies won't want to hire one.
Now we can clearly see why you can't get a job
Um. That’s tens of thousands over median software developer wages in the US.
I know good developers who’ve done more impressive stuff than that, making at or under this $150k cut-off.
[dead]
Adjust your definition of a “real career” as one making over 150k. Another adjustment is thinking 4 months is a long time, especially given you know you could improve interviewing.
Check out data fields. I’m in data analytics, no I don’t make 150k, but it’s a good living and I consider it real. I do a lot of good and save government a lot of money with my tech skills.
I wonder what % of the country (much less the world) make less than 150k and this thread is just shitting all over them. 90%? 95%? 98%?
I'm embarrassed by this whole thing.
Making 150k for even a few years would be completely life altering (in the good way). Probably still wouldn't be able to afford a house where I'm at, but in every other way...
OP comes off as hugely entitled to be honest.
I'm not going to do this - the boomer notion that you should just "accept" making what is now equivalent to $57k prior to covid is hilarious. I'd consider making sub $80k for a year or two for the right career and a path to real earning potential.
I'm incredibly frugal and barely spent any money doing anything over the past six months.
Making real progress matters - if I wanted to accept less income I'd live in a country like Spain, Argentina or SEA. Please don't lie to yourself about the insane state of America currently (economically).
There seems to be something wrong with your inflation numbers. According to BLS [0], $150k in August of this year has the same buying power as $118k in August of 2019.
You might check some other sources, like median USA house prices. I've looked at a few. None come close to the numbers you're claiming.
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
Regardless, calling $150k a "shockingly high" salary is hilarious in 2025.
Different people find different things hilarious, but no one called it "shockingly high".
> I'm incredibly frugal and barely spent any money doing anything over the past six months.
.. okay, so why do you need 150k out of the gate, then?
Just an opinion here. You seem like you might feel you’re owed something. That’s not the case.
Doesn’t matter what you studied. Or where your degree is from. Doesn’t matter what you’ve done before, or what you expect to get paid.
What matters is what you can do for an employer, and what they need. Luck plays a role in the kind of jobs that open up for you. Personality does too, also your networking skills.
Good luck in your searching. Sometimes careers go boom and sometimes they go bust. Only in retrospect can you tell where you’re at.
I don't really know what it's like in America but 150k here is insane. If you really can't land a job, it's either time for an attitude adjustment or perhaps a third bite at the apple.
I don’t know where you are but 150k is decent at best in most US and Western European big cities. So if someone has a few years of experience under their belt, the expectation isn’t too complacent.
US$150k is not only "decent" in high-income Western European cities (Paris, London, Amsterdam, etc.), it's a huge salary, usually in the top 5% of earners.
This expectation is why software development has become the neo-yuppies of the 2010s-2020s, people with overinflated expectations because they are keeping-up-with-the-Joneses from the internet being loud about their high salaries. Yes, there are people earning a lot in this industry but it's definitely not the norm outside of the inflated US salaries, the USA is the outlier.
I literally don’t understand the rationale behind trying to bring down anyone aiming for a higher wage.
I live in Europe, and 150k isn’t a moonshot salary here. Just because something isn’t the norm doesn’t mean no one should try to achieve it.
Also, OP doesn’t live in Europe and clearly doesn’t care. So 200k is a reasonable ask there. American salaries aren’t outliers; they correspond to the cost of living. Being bitter about your own wage and trying to denigrate someone else isn’t helpful.
> Also, OP doesn’t live in Europe and clearly doesn’t care.
My point was to what I quote, not sure why you felt the need to state the obvious, refrain from strawman-ing, please.
> I literally don’t understand the rationale behind trying to bring down anyone aiming for a higher wage.
One can aim as much as they want but there's reality: that kind of wage is reserved for less than 5% of the population of already very rich countries, by definition it's not achievable by the majority, and having that as an expectation is bound to bring a lot of people feeling like failures because they can't achieve. Keeping reality in mind is very good to not end up frustrated because you are earning a salary of 80k€ which is already more than 70-80%+ of what workers earn in the EU...
Aim for what you feel like while keeping in mind that, statistically speaking, you might not achieve it but can still have a very good life with less than that.
Look up the average salary of H1B visa holders...
I don't really have any interest arguing what a respectable salary on HN is. The recruiter I was working with clearly stated that $180-200k given my resume was reasonable. America isn't europe.
I sold my house last year. I looked up the average price growth over the 8 years I owned it for, did some maths and came up with a value. Estate agents even vaguely corroborated it - they thought it was high but within range.
Then I started having viewings on the house, and no one liked it at the price. People had really weird comments: at this price the garden should be bigger, there aren't enough rooms downstairs, the staircase is too wide. Objectively, whatever that means, it was a lovely house - good location, modern, good condition, nice garden, light and spacious. Nothing wrong with it.
Long story short, in the end I sold it for 15% less than the "fair market price" I came up with, and also 10% below the real estate agents estimate.
It stung, but it's a reminder that the market value is what someone is willing to pay. If no one wants to pay my fair market value then it's not a fair market value, period.
I'm just a rando on the internet, but I think the attitude that you are definitely "worth X" but no one wants to pay you this might be counterproductive. Your empirical evidence says you are apparently worth Y. Markets change, recruiters lie etc.
Start with that as as an evidential baseline and ask yourself what could increase your "value" - be it how you present your experience, how you interview, or what skills you could add or niche you could explore.
Bro, recruiters are kindof idiots.
I'm gonna be real with you: you need to face the fact that you don't understand the game you're playing.
I know because I was there. I founded a startup that I can make sound impressive. I left when I burnt out, thinking of course what I did was impressive enough to easily land a job. I floundered for 5 years.
Places look at your resume and either see someone who is overqualified (they're right) or someone who hasn't worked on a real project (they're right). If you can't swallow that, you're going to keep beating your head against the wall until you do.
I started refusing any interview that had a live coding exam (I vibed way better with places that did project based exams). I coded my own projects to hone my skills.
Eventually I decided I needed to play the game. What I did was really niche. I took a web dev boot camp and practiced code exams.
Now I have a job where I started at a low salary, but they created a senior position for me in less than a year. It's looking like managing my team will be a thing before year 2. I will get paid less than other people in the industry, but if that ever really bothers me I'll be able to move laterally and make more easily.
This is all to say: suck it the eff up. Your experience is useful, but you're playing a different game. Lower your expectations, get the chip off your shoulder, and maneuver whatever you can find into a win.
Looking for opinions from engineers in america.
FWIW it's a very challenging job market right now. It took me 7 months to land a job, and I know other people are struggling even longer than that.
Networking seems to be the only way to get past the HR filters.
Seconding this.
Was out of work for a year. The magic solution was a nepo referral.
I love this world!
We'll see - have a few leads but hoping to close one of them before November since all hiring grinds to a halt until the new year after November.
I’m in the same boat, but fortunately have a job right now. I’m not sure what I’ll do after this current one.
Seems like the interview pipeline is geared towards new grads and junior engineers and penalize senior and staff. At what point do I stop having to do these silly coding interviews?! At what point does my resume and 20 yrs of experience speak for itself? So called senior/staff interview loops are a joke with toy system design questions. What do you really learn asking “design twitter” 100 times?
The only answer I can come up with is networking. Basically, don’t bother interviewing. 4 of my last 5 jobs were via networking—no interviews.
What? I see the opposite. A junior engineer is a tough sell right now. If I'm going to hand hold someone through spewing out some typescript, claude does it for cheaper and can type faster. I know this is shitty, and it feels bad because senior people mentored me back in the day, but for smaller companies, the only thing in the end is survival of the business. The time horizon isn't long enough to think about growing engineers. Again, very bleak, but it is what it is.
Agree with your points on networking being the only way. Interviewing is super broken right now.
[deleted]
this has been precisely my experience
frankly, if an offer presented itself for $80k a year I'd take it (it's embarrassing but that's just where I am at the moment)
Good luck friend :)
Sorry to hear you are in this situation. I've been there as well, but sticking in the middle of this is more than nerve wracking and a serious health issue... First, I agree that AI will be shaking up several jobs. But I think that lawyers will also have there aces up the sleeves to keep their business running. Nonetheless, working as one isn't very healthy as well as you always are under pressure to gather enough billables... Niche is always a solution to the mass grinding. Secondly, an advice I once received: looking back at your past jobs, was there something you enjoyed doing besides your main tasks and clocked voluntarily some extrahours, because you were passionate about it? Like the controller, who stepped forward and got a health and safety training, without being paid extra for it, the controller, who wrote a small software tool for easing work processes, the software engineere, who created an onboarding portal for new employees.. Sometimes, people realize, that they already did something, they really enjoyed but never thought about to make it a focus and not just somethin "useful, besides no one else takes care of it"... This hint really helped me to realize, what I was actually good at all the time even though it had nothing to do with my day job and my previous roles.
I wish you all the best in this current situation and hope, things will fall in place quite soon.
Thanks!
I really enjoyed the process engineering and problem solving of running my own companies. It's how I ended up managing a small team of engineers. I even lived in China for a few months getting our production setup.
Unfortunately, most companies don't seem to care about this experience or think because it was my own org (with references) it doesn't stand up to actual "PM" / "management" experience.
From the tone of your post, you might be suffering from a bit of burnout. If that's the case, then I would recommend taking any extremely low paying and low stress retail job for the rest of this year. Perhaps, when January rolls around, having had a chance to mentally decompress, you might once again consider a position in the startup world. In this job market, given your situation, you're going to have a really tough time applying for jobs at large companies while hoping to beat out all the other job applicants for that $150K+ position. If you're willing to consider taking a lower salary, I would recommend that you focus on applying for jobs at tiny startups where money is tight and the base salary they are offering is $100K or less. A lower salary means that there will be fewer job applicants that you have to beat out for the position. Right now, it might sting to take a lower salary, but, the job market might pick up in a year or two, and then it might be a lot easier to land a high paying position.
Speaking as somebody that worked retail in their Youth, I didn’t really find it stress-free, more mindless.
Why can you not pass tech screens? You mean leetcode questions? I know a guy who just made youtube videos solving them and eventually he got good enough to get a job at Google.
I don't really know, none of this was a problem when I got my last job in tech (as a non-founder).
As in they didn't ask leetcode-style questions or you solved the same sort of questions no problem?
These were real-world type problems etc. Maybe I just use cursor too much and I've forgotten the short-hand they were looking for.
Prior I never had to do leetcode screens for interviews because of my network - don't really regret not burning tons of hours grinding leetcode.
My best guess is they thought my skills weren't advanced enough for my age or found it weird I was bald.
IMO it's always been a red flag if a company doesn't do coding screens, even if someone at the company says they're good. There's just too many awful programmers out there to be willing to move forward with a candidate on word of mouth alone.
It really sounds like you just need to brush up on your interviewing skills, maybe some leetcode practice, maybe you just need someone to stare at you while you solve problems to get over the nerves of the situation.
I used to practice in an environment without even basic autocomplete because I felt like it was more effective, maybe something like that would help you.
Couldn't agree more - I'd even be open to an unpaid contract period before an offer goes fulltime.
> Prior I never had to do leetcode screens for interviews because of my network - don't really regret not burning tons of hours grinding leetcode.
I hate to be the one to break this to you but this is what it comes down to. For those without great networks there is only leetcode hell. I don't have to tell you how dumb it is, everyone hates it for a reason, but that's the game. If i was in your shoes i would try to level up before changing course, i.e banging out 1-2 leetcode hards everyday. Best of luck which ever path you take.
Regarding law school, I would point out that law grad salaries are bi-modal. If you get in big law, you would start at $210k, if not you will start at a lot less. Presumably, with your background, your easiest pathway to big law is patent litigation, but I would say there is still a lot bias favoring EE degrees over CS, but less so than in the past (as I recall from interviewing a long time ago that was true, but at my firm, I think its less of issue, but your experience may vary).
Law school is expensive and I don't think there is a cheap option in the bay area (even the state school is expensive but in other locations, it can be cheaper), but they do give out scholarships.
I wouldn't choose law school unless you think you could do well in the actual legal career environment. I don't know what you mean by "good contacts for law school," but if that means you know people in the field, I would suggest talking to them about it. Get as much information you can get.
Any worries that law is not going to be a viable career with AI seems farfetched by me, particularly in litigation.
From your comments, it seems like there's a lot of internal and external issues you're dealing with. Internally, your sense of self worth is very much tied to your compensation/wealth. The recent rejections have triggered anxiety / negative self-reflection. The lack of a job/income is really straining your confidence.
Externally ...
1) It's actually a shit job market.
2) Your startup experiences don't really help signal your skillset as an employee. There's a sorta "founder tax" you're paying.
3) COVID, remote work, and new supplies of CS grads have changed the labour dynamics to depress wages. The top 20% may be doing ok, but the bottom 80% are getting diluted.
If I were you I'd consider a few things:
- Really think about what's a good/meaningful life to you. Volunteer/do something useful for other people (ex. a non-profit) to build up confidence again.
- Recognize your technical skillset may not be as "senior" as you think, since you had to expend valuable time learning other skills as an entrepreneur. It might mean more learning, building, leetcode grinding, interview prep, etc, before you can land the role. Concurrently, you can think about how to better communicate all the other useful things you've learned at a startup.
- If you enjoyed the startup experience, but concerned about the grind, then you don't have to build high growth businesses that require the 996 mentality. Boostrapping and organically growing a niche product may be more aligned with your skillset/goals.
Agreeing with everything here, and I would add that OP likely has a decent network. Try to land some contract work, whether it's full-time or part-time, while you figure out the rest.
thanks - this is what I'm getting by on for now
This is a fantastic analysis.
I didn't want to go here, but I do have direct knowledge from two final rounds I was passed over for that h1b visa holders were selected instead of me and paid less. (I knew employees at these startups)
Part of why I'm just considering doing something else is the fact that so much of this work is going to be outsourced. Most of my friends who are actively running startups don't even bother hiring inside the US and just use latam contractors.
Unfortunately, I need money. I have effectively a net zero income for 2025, this after years of entrepreneurship just isn't good enough. I find it ironic how on HN anyone advocating to push themselves into a position where they have more options (more income) is met with accusations of being "entitled" or outlandish.
Let's say my skillset isn't as "senior" as I think, how on earth do I escape the tar-pit of being a semi-junior senior (to quote DHH)? This problem is what's been tearing me apart... I genuinely don't know what to do.
I also have some medical stuff I need taken care of and I can't afford to liquidate more of my retirement. So "bootstrapping" another company is just something I'm not interested in.
It seems like the cashflow situation will rule out some options, at least for the moment, like boostrapping etc. Contracting could be a temporary option, esp for US companies that need in-person support with good language skills. This would blunt some of the competition from abroad.
Regarding learning "out of the tar-pit", it's hard to give out specifics without knowing more details about your experiences. But it might be worthwhile to reach out to other senior engineers in your network, not to ask for a job, but to ask for advice about switching from entrepreneur/founder to employee. It could be a good way to build rapport and identify what you should be learning next.
Your health obviously takes priorty over everything else. Medical problems can really push you into despair if left unaddressed. Money you can always make back later.
> I find it ironic how on HN anyone advocating to push themselves into a position where they have more options (more income) is met with accusations of being "entitled" or outlandish.
> Let's say my skillset isn't as "senior" as I think
The people from the first sentence were trying to get you to understand the content of the second sentence.
I've read all the comments in this thread and I will be frank with you.
You are arrogant and entitled. You are not as great as you think you are. If you were, you would have what you want. But you don't. And even if you were great, you (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't be arrogant or entitled. It's a terrible way to live. Insulting those who are trying to help you by calling their advice "boomer cope" is beyond asinine and just the topping on the cake.
Your problem is that you think you deserve something. You don't. In the strictest sense what you "deserve" is exactly what you have right now, which is nothing. "Deserve" is meaningless word anyway. As if there is some universal objective truth about what the state of your life "should" be.
If you want to get out of this rut, humble yourself, get whatever software job you can get (assuming you want to stay in this industry), and slowly work your way up over the coming decades. That's reality.
It's also clear that you have no true sense of ownership or responsibility. You have a victim mindset. It oozes out of everything you say. Some examples:
Q: "Why can you not pass tech screens? You mean leetcode questions?"
> I don't really know, none of this was a problem when I got my last job in tech (as a non-founder).
Who cares what the state of the world was when you got your last job? Clearly you're not cutting it today. Does living in the glory days of your past put food on your table now?
> My best guess is they thought my skills weren't advanced enough for my age or found it weird I was bald.
No hiring manager cares that you're bald. That's just you blaming them for your lack of skills.
> I'm legitimately going to just move to another country if one more boomer tells me I just have to "wait for the stars to align" one more time.
You won't have to wait until another "boomer" tells you that (how do you even know who is a boomer, and why does it matter if they are?). Your current crappy attitude will all but ensure you will fail and be forced into such a situation.
All that aside, I hope you fix your attitude and improve your life. Good luck.
I agree with the parent's main point, but I'd like to soften it a little:
Many of us have learned humility the hard way. It's a painful process. But if you take the right lessons from it, then in retrospect you'll be glad for the personal growth.
Meta: comments like your parent are exactly the painful process. Someone needs to hold a mirror up to crappy attitude and entitlement.
[dead]
Agree with this though it's brutal. Op needs to look inward.
But I will add that there are external factors as well.
The last 10-15 years in this industry have been an absolute cakewalk. I came to this conclusion even as a junior engineer who entered the workforce around 2015. I remember getting my entry level salary and thinking there's no way this goes on forever. Everyone was hiring people that can't do basic shit and giving them six figure salaries. When the gravy train is rolling it's really hard to not get complacent. I think we all did a little bit, and now the gravy train is over. This is how every other industry is. You don't get paid much for middling skills, job searches take a while, etc. This is how it's going to be.
Just like all the others, this'll be a k shaped recession.
Though my academic background is in computer science, I've spent years working in other sectors such as translation and education (areas that are fortunately easier to pivot into without years of rigorous accreditation like law or medicine).
I derive a great deal of personal satisfaction from working in these fields, but given your relatively high salary prerequisites, they'd likely be nonstarters for you.
It's honestly a bit difficult to give any concrete advice without additional specifics into your situation:
- Do you have a formal degree in computer science or an adjacent field?
- Is your resume only populated with your startup businesses?
- Have you worked for an existing company in a tech-related role for at least two years?
etc.
Good luck with your search!
I initially worked for Amazon out of college (where I have a legit CS degree), but yeah it's mostly startups. Fortunately I have evidence of progression at each.
I was a technical co-founder for the past two years. Spent the past six months at an accelerator in SF (YC tier) but my concept just wasn't a viable business.
Frankly, I'm really tired of startups and just want a normal job for a while. I don't really care anymore if its in tech or not. I'm pretty close to just getting a job at a UPS Store because it's getting hard to care about any of this anymore.
Start the leetcode grind like everyone else if you want stay in software, that’s what I had to do.
> Building with AI is incredible, but when I get interviews I just flat out can't pass tech screens anymore.
Have you considered stopping using LLMs? They really do seem to destroy some peoples’ ability to program in a short period of time.
Maybe you need to lower expectations. If you aren’t passing the tech screens for the $150k jobs, lower the bar to get your foot in the door, then work on getting promoted over time.
Take a gander here, https://www.reddit.com/r/Millennials/comments/1o7fcfc/nobody...
I'm really torn, TBH. Plenty of people do, indeed, get on with F/MAANG/whatever out of college and make that 150. Plenty don't. It's jut bleh
It's really scary out there - I couldn't imagine what it would be like to not have any hard skills during this recession.
Well the skilless people who were lucky enough to be born without conscience can just join ICE.
Gonna pile on: you really really really have to go all in on coding exercises. These infuriating and stupid coding assessments are just that. But you absolutely will make it past that hurdle.
And if you're gunning for senior positions, you'll have to suffer the system designs as well.
Keep practicing and don't let a single day slip by without training. If you need a change of pace, code something on the side that's genuinely fun and zero stakes. It will all come together eventually.
I've actually never really had issues passive system design rounds. I had to get through those to get to both on-sites I mentioned. It's partially why I started applying to solutions eng roles.
Fortunately I have some vaguely profitable side projects that keep me busy - trying to stay sharp with those.
Aside from that and leetcode what would you recommend I do to practice?
The one thing they taught me about jobs and the future in the C.A.C.C (California cadet corps) was that the more you help out/volunteer the more likely you are to get a job over someone else who didn't do anything this can also apply to stuff you did in high school depending if you did stuff in high school or not could also help :p
Worst case maybe I'll join the military
IMO, worth considering; may not be the worst idea from a soft-skills angle.
If you want to be employed in a tech space then you'll need to work on passing those tech screens. Silly as they may be employers makes the rules in interviews.
Or found another company then you can make your own rules.
> law school
Given how rapidly the current administration is tearing up the legislative rule book and AI excelling at big chunks of it, law is not a space I'd want to be in
I can't tell if I'm just too stupid to pass them or if the market has suddenly raised the bar substantially.
I'd be willing to bet it's our good friends the magic robots. Go cold turkey on LLMs for a bit and see how you get on. Some, though not all, people seem to lose the ability to program remarkably quickly on exposure to them.
Or you're just rusty and need a bit of non-AI practice.
Been there after the dot com bust - in my case I eventually got hired by a startup where I aced the brain teasers and 6 months there gave me the tech stack to get hired at a big company that carried me through to retirement. Six months of 996 may be the price to get back on the ladder.
Look into computer security. A good portion of our team are former developers. There are many opportunities to code. Either making internal tools, one off tools during projects or tools for public use.
"real career (earns more than $150k per annum)"
"make a decent salary and work 50hr weeks"
You sound incredibly privileged and entitled. I this just a ragebait post?
[dead]
At any level above 100k, the 15k extra per year for h1b workers the admin promised isn’t a meaningful barrier to h1b abuse, so you’ll have to compete with the entire planet and most of those foreign workers will come from terrible third world scammer filled hellholes that nobody would want to have to return to if their h1b gig gets canceled. Meaning your competing with quasi-slave labor.
If you go for lower paying jobs you will be treated better and have much better results without all that h1b soft slavery culture and exploitation, but alas you’ll never be able to live like a prop13’d boomer homeowner on such a salary unless you leave this failed state and move somewhere with enough political diversity to ensure a functional government. You can’t surf in Denver so you’ll have to make a hard choice or pick up a new hobby like snowboarding.
> and founding two companies
What's the story here?
> Fortunately I have some money to show for it
Are you in a rush to get back to work?
Not in a hurry, but my lackluster "exit" is roughly equivalent to a middling faang job for the years I put into my startup.
My monthly expenses are low, but I'm sad I'm in my early 30's and effectively just burned a year doing nothing because I'm mentally in this place and can't really afford to spend more.
I basically haven't made any money in 2025 and it's starting to eat me alive. Fortunately, after taking some time off I no longer really feel burnt out.
Back when the dot com bubble burst I ended up in the same position and had to switch careers in order to keep the rent paid, and programming became just a hobby instead. I kind of prefer that as everything I've heard about modern commercial software development sounds like hell (especially if, like me, you have no interest in web stuff). Being able to work on what I want to, at my own pace, in languages I like, is nice
I definitely miss the paychecks that come with tech jobs, though.
Which career did you switch to?
Health care, with a focus on chemical dependency/addiction that I fell into by accident.
> when I get interviews I just flat out can't pass tech screens anymore
This sounds like the issue to me? You’re getting opps but you’re biffing the tech screen. Can you just slam leet code for 2 months and then ace the screen or is it something else?
Some have been leetcode, others just asking esoteric react facts.
The in-person rounds I've done have seemingly gone well, I've produced code that fits requirements each time.
Not exactly sure.
Have you asked any of the interviewers for feedback / why they passed? Can’t fix what you don’t know.
They've given some - all I've really received is "your solutions were interesting and passed the bar, but we proceeded with another candidate"
I never understood the interview questions around what you would call "esoteric facts" about specific frameworks. This tells you nothing except that the candidate is good at cramming, and knew what they needed to cram for.
Now if it's "open book", and the idea is to see how efficient the candidate is at finding the answer, that makes more sense to me.
in the bay, same position. i found a part time job at a struggling startup for the time being (my salary is under $40/hr). but it feels like my personal life is on hold til I find something more permanent. hope you figure it out
Hope things get better! Thanks for your thoughts :)
Don't worry about the money too much. You're trying to solve multiple equations at the same time. Focus on getting your foot in the door somewhere in a job you like. It would have been great if you could have picked up 150k/year job as easily now as in the past, but the market has turned south.
It is easier to get a job when you have one already. You don't have to solve all the problems at once.
I've run out of options in my network and at this point I just need to make at least $70k before I have to resort to working at a UPS store or something that will cause my skills to further deteriorate.
Man, I feel like my "Ask HN" post from a few years ago isn't too different from your's besides me being 15 years older than you. The result I got from it was a HN user contacting me, where we got coffee and he explained to me how to be successful on Upwork.
Being a freelancer was never my intention, but it's where I ended up, and right now I'm very thankful for it. I don't make much money, but I can say that I make my living as a software developer. I have clients who think I'm their golden goose, and I ended up landing an internship at Akamai, yet I still feel completely un-hirable in the traditional sense, but I also feel like once the tide does turn, I'm in a much better position to market myself, and get a real job if I desire.
I know this sucks, but man, what I'd give to be in that position in my 20's instead of my late 30's.
thanks, this means a lot
I'm in my early 30s, but I generally find it really discouraging here when people on HN try to "be nice" by claiming $150k isn't effectively minimum wage even working at startups in the bay.
Fortunately I've had some success with consulting - the world just seems really bleak right now in terms of my employment prospects.
You're not wrong about the bleak part. My team at Akamai was routing for me, but at that time, they were worried about layoffs. Their stock dropped from 110 to around 75 dollars since then. Sucks for me, but it was a Cloud Support job. Very technical, but not really what I wanted to be doing long term. I figured it would be a good foot in the door at a good company.
Back up a second. You've missed an important question. What do you WANT out of your time in this life? Where do you actually want to be in ten years, or twenty? $150k p/a is not an answer, or at least not a very good one. You clearly have means enough to start businesses, so a lot of non-conventional doors are open to you. Why do any of it?
I've had plenty of time to relax. Going forward I want options, and the best path to that is to pay off the small amount of debt I currently have and start making forward financial progress.
I need a way to begin making income in the next few months, I can't afford to roll my own business and wait years to break even. I don't want anything non-conventional - I want a normal job, heck even if it's $90k per year.
If you think SWE is hard, the market for JDs is even worse. Never take on debt without a plan!
1. Four months looking for an job isn’t a long time in today’s job market. You aren’t in giving up or changing careers territory yet.
2. Focus on making your job acquisition process a full time job and treat it as a different skill set entirely. For example, applying for jobs doesn’t cut it in today’s market. You need to be reaching out to real live people with messages that offer value. Keep bothering them if they don’t answer, on average it takes 8 contacts to get a response from a cold contact.
2. If you can’t pass tech screens, study tech screens. Put the work in. There’s no excuse for you not passing them.
3. Consider a different role than software engineering. Since you’re a founder, and you’ve started companies, maybe you are a better fit for something else.
4. Expand your reach outside of the Bay Area tech industry. Everyone has software engineers. Look at other industries that aren’t explicitly tech companies. Healthcare comes to mind.
5. Don’t get a law degree. You want to work fewer hours, not more.
6. Get out of the Bay Area. Software engineers don’t work 50 hour weeks in the Midwest. California work culture is toxic, and you’ll get your own house for the price of a VCR in the Midwest.
7. Reset your salary expectations (see also #6). The median income of the USA is so much lower than $150k.
Thanks for your thoughts - but I'm not going to pat myself on the back trying to make the US median income. To be clear, I'd accept anything over $70k at this point.
I guess what I mean to say is don’t get the idea that $100-120k for a non-senior developer job in a middle America city is a bad living. You’ll probably live better with that than you do now in the Bay Area.
I was at a concert last night and met someone working concessions who used to do training for a tech company. She has been out of career work for 2 years. Has a promising job opportunity but no offer yet. Real life isn’t necessarily going to cut you a break.
Reducing myself to the career mean of a midwest town sounds worse than checking myself into a mental institution.
You've had already several replies commenting in your attitude issues; but it seems you are still to young to see them. I really, really hope in my heart that you can still keep the way of life you are used to. Although, from what I've seen in the US and the world currently, it will be quite difficult.
It is a reality that us people from Xenials (myself), Millenials and Z have have lived our work lives in a generally confortable era. I myself ended my BSc in 2004, way after the dot-com bubble burst, and fortunately the 2008 crisis didn't hit me.
But, the advice you are calling "boomer coping" (or similar) has some experience in there, most likely from people that suffered the 2000 dot-com bubble burst. From the accounts I've read of older friends, there were people with plenty of experience and great CVs washing dishes at local restaurants.
Right now, the way things are moving in our field, with AI, outsourcing and everything else playing, it looks like the skillsets are getting cheaper. So, we are getting punched by reality and I believe it will only get worse.
Good luck.
> But, the advice you are calling "boomer coping" (or similar) has some experience in there, most likely from people that suffered the 2000 dot-com bubble burst. From the accounts I've read of older friends, there were people with plenty of experience and great CVs washing dishes at local restaurants.
Also the early 90s weren’t great: the Cold War ending meant that a lot of defense contractors laid off very specialized workers. For an example of that circa 1994:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000816014209/https://philip.gr...
You aren’t superior to everyone else. Maybe you aren’t passing the vibe check rather than the tech screen if this is your level of humility in interviews.
The Midwest includes some amazing and really nicely affordable cities like Chicago. You would even find mental institutions like the twin cities, Milwaukee, Madison, Columbus, Detroit, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh to be really nice places with lots to do.
And I’m not even telling you that you’re resigning to being a plebeian with median income, but you can’t help being snobby anyway.
I'd say 150K is shooting for the stars depending on your skill set. It can happen in good times but sometime you gotta revalue your times worth.
As far as leaping out, yeah there's a ton of opportunity while keeping a "tech" base: CCTV Installer (Commercial IP Security Cams), VoIP (Business Phone Systems), POS (Point of Sale Restaurant and Retail).
I appreciate this, but I'm just not willing to fall for boomer cope.
The notion that $150k will even let you raise a family where you don't care about looking poor (I don't care) is frankly insulting.
I'm legitimately going to just move to another country if one more boomer tells me I just have to "wait for the stars to align" one more time.
150k is reasonably more than most two working parent families make.
you mught have a stilted view on how rich other people are. it might be base salary for tech workers in high cost areas, but its not at all the norm across the economy
Well, if your basis is a midwest state like Iowa with zero tech jobs - that might be accurate.
After reading your replies here it seems like your attitude might be a contributing factor in your inability to pass interviews.
wait for the stars to align
ok boomer
This attitude when you are already on your 30s would definitely put me off from hiring you. Best of luck.
Yeah, good luck, kinda see the problem here. We might be younger than you dude...
We're in similar times to the 2000's era "dot com bubble burst". I got caught out in that fiasco, couldn't get a full time programming job for about 4 years. I scraped by freelancing, but I also had generosity of friends to help me out with rent. It was a long hard 4 years, every month was difficult just feeding myself. Then things turned around. I don't really know if it's going to turn around anytime soon this time, and the AI bubble is going to make it a whole lot worse when it pops. "AI" is screwing up the world, and it's going to take people waking up that it's not the magic thing it was billed to be, and the world needs real developers, not only tin cans.